Loading... today begins a look back at MMORPG category this year with the two major MMORPGs released in 2008 that bet big on PvP. Was it a wise gamble?
Tons of WoW talent build updates, a 38 Studios interview, a City of Heroes re-review, plus our epic forum thread and real world news links round out Loading... is PvP the Future?
__________________
Jeff "Ethec" Woleslagle Editor-in-Chief - The Ten Ton Hammer Network
I really hope not. I've played PvP on EQ2, AoC, and WAR and I haven't enjoyed it ever. I have no problem with people wanting to play PvP, but I compete enough in the real world and don't want to repeat that experience in my leisure time. I hope that Darkfall grabs all the hardcore PvPers (especially the ones that refer to anyone who prefers PVE as "carebears") and leave the rest of us alone in peace (literally) When I take a look at the morass that is the WoW forums, the majority of the whining and complaining are coming from PvP players.
Jeff, you've hit the nail on the head about the goal new MMOGs should aim for being the niche markets. WoW does everything for everyone just as you said. The only thing that can beat that is doing one thing extremely well and getting all of those fans on board.
I have no problem with people wanting to play PvP, but I compete enough in the real world and don't want to repeat that experience in my leisure time.
I enjoy my PvP in small doses due to this exact reason. If I have a bad day at work, which is most days, then I'm usually not in the mood for fast paced PvP. I've competed all day and now the only person I want to compete with is myself and how fast I can down this frosty beverage in front of me That's when a good PvE game is in order.
__________________
"That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? Look at the strength in your body, the desire in your heart, I gave you this! Such a waste. Contemplate this on the tree of woe. Crucify him!"
I hope this modern PvP isn't the future... All this instanced fast pace 'l33t kiddie' stuff, I don't think its fitting. The two 'Ms' in MMO are there for a reason and playing a 5v5 mini-game doesn't really cut it... 'Massive Multiplayer' in PvP is something that has been missing from MMOs since the glory days of DAoC and Planetside.
But Aion is an odd one... Its claiming something called PvPvE (Player versus Player versus Environment), Where 2 player factions AND a 3rd NPC controlled faction fight each other for land and castles, Sounds like madness... But in the Korean beta they managed huge 400 man battles without the huge lag that hits so many MMOs... They might be onto something, Warhammer has clearly tried to merge PvP with PvE but in the end, many just think the PvE gets in the way of the real WAR, but in Aion the PvE not only in the war but kicking you're ass at the same time.
I hope this modern PvP isn't the future... All this instanced fast pace 'l33t kiddie' stuff, I don't think its fitting. The two 'Ms' in MMO are there for a reason and playing a 5v5 mini-game doesn't really cut it... 'Massive Multiplayer' in PvP is something that has been missing from MMOs since the glory days of DAoC and Planetside.
But Aion is an odd one... Its claiming something called PvPvE (Player versus Player versus Environment), Where 2 player factions AND a 3rd NPC controlled faction fight each other for land and castles, Sounds like madness... But in the Korean beta they managed huge 400 man battles without the huge lag that hits so many MMOs... They might be onto something, Warhammer has clearly tried to merge PvP with PvE but in the end, many just think the PvE gets in the way of the real WAR, but in Aion the PvE not only in the war but kicking you're ass at the same time.
And exactly what you just said, is what makes me VERY very interested in Aion, apart from the fact that the classes seem cool, the character customization is akin to Perfect World (i.e. off the hook), the graphics are beautiful, the effects look insane, the music is gorgeous, and well....it just looks to be ENOUGH different from the generic (of late) MMORPG stylings to be GOOD.
I have had great hopes for Aion for quite a long time now. Frankly...I can't wait to get my hands on this one.
I hope this modern PvP isn't the future... All this instanced fast pace 'l33t kiddie' stuff, I don't think its fitting. The two 'Ms' in MMO are there for a reason and playing a 5v5 mini-game doesn't really cut it... :
I agree with this as well, I'm of the camp that thought scenarios are the bane of WAR. I think people spent far too much time in scenarios then actually out there creating open RvR. I'd love to see them do away with them all together. I found the ever changing conditions of open RvR to be far more fun then the "set" combat conditions of scenarios and instances. Sometimes you outnumber your enemy and you can take a more straight forward approach, other times your outnumbered and need to use different tactics to survive.
__________________
"That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? Look at the strength in your body, the desire in your heart, I gave you this! Such a waste. Contemplate this on the tree of woe. Crucify him!"
I agree with this as well, I'm of the camp that thought scenarios are the bane of WAR. I think people spent far too much time in scenarios then actually out there creating open RvR. I'd love to see them do away with them all together. I found the ever changing conditions of open RvR to be far more fun then the "set" combat conditions of scenarios and instances. Sometimes you outnumber your enemy and you can take a more straight forward approach, other times your outnumbered and need to use different tactics to survive.
I think one of the main issues is that renown is tied to both scenarios and open world RvR - for most players it's simply easier to click a button, hit 'join' and PvP rather than try and organize a larger group to take open world objectives. I hate to say it, but that's one lesson Mythic should have picked up from WoW's open world PvP objectives that were first added to the Plaguelands and then worked into certain areas in the Burning Crusade as well.
Scenarios are simply the easiest method of obtaining quality gear that's above the norm for what you'll get as PvE drops or quest rewards. If you cut the renown gain down by a large margin, you'll find they're not quite as much of a focus anymore.
At launch AoC was a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Even though the PvP preview weekend was a big success and helped add to the hype-machine for the game, those same mini-games were some of the least played content in the game once it went live. Even with packed servers and very competitive minded guilds, it was next to impossible to get enough people together for the mini-games unless the players on a given server organized windows of time to encourage people to queue for them.
The main issue really came down to an absence of tangible rewards at that point. It proved the point that people aren't interested in playing quick games of capture the flag in an MMO the same way they would be if it were a tacked-on multiplayer mode for their favorite FPS unless there's a reward system in place.
WAR took the exact opposite approach, rewarding players too much for a simple activity, and other aspects of the game have suffered as a result.
Beyond that, I think that any game that treats PvE and PvP as self-contained activities as an inherent part of it's design will also see a fairly sharp division amongst it's player base. WoW and GW are two major examples, though GW helped facilitate an even greater divide by offering PvP-only unlocks etc.
WAR attempted to bridge that gap a bit, but there's still some flaws in the overall design that keep it from working all that well. PvP is still distinctly separate from PvE objectives - just look at the RvR zones as an example. Apart from control points and keeps, they lack any PvE content, and you also don't find PvP objectives in PvE zones. They may boarder one another, but there's still a division that mirrors that of the player population.
In that sense I'd rather see an "all or nothing" approach. Offer one server type that's either PvE or PvP-centric, but don't try and please both crowds as separate aspects of gameplay, because it simply won't happen.
I agree with this as well, I'm of the camp that thought scenarios are the bane of WAR. I think people spent far too much time in scenarios then actually out there creating open RvR. I'd love to see them do away with them all together. I found the ever changing conditions of open RvR to be far more fun then the "set" combat conditions of scenarios and instances. Sometimes you outnumber your enemy and you can take a more straight forward approach, other times your outnumbered and need to use different tactics to survive.
This is a very good point. I never actually considered that WAR would have been a better game without the scenarios, but thinking about it I do believe it would be.
The reason I cancelled my WAR sub was that WAR did one thing fantasticall, and that's RvR, but it did other things mediocrely and unfortunately it was these things that detracted from their ace in the hole.
I sincerely hope PvP isn't the future of MMOGs, or I'll be done with them. I play games to be entertained, and I don't find being ganked, griefed, and / or trash-talked to entertaining.
Loading... December 1, 2008 - Is PvP the Future?
That's when a good PvE game is in order.
I play games to be entertained, and I don't find being ganked, griefed, and / or trash-talked to entertaining.
Linear Mode
