STO vs. KOTOR Online - The Ultimate Sci-Fi Showdown
While WAR may be looming on the horizon, many eyes have already pulled away from the upcoming fantasy-based MMOG to focus squarely on two science fiction contenders that are now actively being discussed in the MMOG marketplace, Cryptic's Star Trek Online and Bioware's Knights of the Old Republic Online. The rivalry between these two factions is epic, and the release of these two MMOGs will only add fuel to the fire. To stir the pot a bit more, Ten Ton Hammer's Cody "Micajah" Bye pointed out several key differences that may attract or repel gamers to the two titles. Go read the articles, then head back to the forums to discuss your own thoughts!
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Without this magical fantasy element, Star Trek diverges even further from its rival and every other MMOG on the market. Even other sci-fi massively multiplayer online games like Tabula Rasa and Anarchy Online use their own versions of "magic" to help their characters have a variety of abilities. Without their own "magical realism", Star Trek will stand alone as a true science fiction game without the smallest bit of fantasy involved. Although this will set STO apart, it will also hold Star Trek Online to it's own standard; a pinnacle for true sci-fi games to aspire to.
At this point STO takes the lead but that's just because there's some info in it and they plan to make something big, while on kotOR there's a feeling that game might be just another mass produced sandbox games, seeing that is looking at the market is the most succesfull way to go and having no doubt bioware is looking for something more stable then just yearly game sales.
Based on background and fanbase it's hard to make a difference cause i think there are just as much star wars as star trek fans and are those really all suddenly going to start gaming.
I'm starting to believe looking back at all other sci-fi mmo's and perhaps even just games, sci-fi fans like a little something more complex.
I pull this (odd) conclusion going over some books and movies i own that were instant hits and neither of them in comparison to the fantasy equivalents are easy. (Vernor Vinge vs J.R.R Tolkien)
Star trek setting can offer both total choas and diplomacy so in that sense it's clearly much more versatile(if that's the correct term), while star wars at this point can only really offer choas if it doesn't it might not be true to the story.
It's a bit difficult to say right now if STO is going to be a real slow action game in comparison to kotOR, cause one 'everything is subject to change' and second 'No gameplay information (kotOR)'
I'm not a real fan of either but i'm pretty sure you can make a good and excting startrek game, i think i even own the disc of that fps that was released several years ago.
About fantasy are you really sure about that?
I think i remember that Star trek did had some kind of it. Mind readers etc.
But yes it's not as flashy as star wars but then again i wouldn't let George Lucas write a story these days looking at it's latest 'creation'. (Indy with aliens wtf?!?)
Very good article Cody, brings up some very good points
The only point I would disagree on is the pace of the games. TOS and TNG were indeed a much slower pace than Star Wars. However with Deep Space 9 doing the Dominion Wars this really expanded on what Star Trek could be. Then in Star Trek First Contact there was the opening scene where Starfleet are fighting the borg. Fast and intense. Star Trek has evolved to compete with Star Wars in this aspect and even in the Star Wars Episode 1 - 3 the main focus was politics more than the fighting.
Right now my money is on Star Trek online over KoTOR Online for a few reasons.
Lucas Arts - LA is has a reputation of being very very hard to work with. The buzz I hear is Lucas has surrounded himself with spineless yes men who basically tell him all is great and how perfect his franchise is, in reality Star Wars has become Krusty the Clown. One of the biggest reasons why SWG is not the hand down awesome game of all time is LA. Much of the stuff that SOE tried to do was shot down. While SOE is partially to blame I think many of the problems that impacted SWG from day 1 were really LA trying to steer the boat.
Plot Line - I am willing to bet its 100000x easier to get something approved by the Star Trek Canon people than Star Wars. Star Trek already shed the stigma of the main character of the world being Captain Kirk. Star Trek progressed its story line so much further than Star Wars could ever hope to. Star Wars is still stuck in a 50 year period of events. While KoTOR takes place way in the past its still bound to the same guidelines much of SW canon is bound too.
BioWare - STO will be Cryptic's 3rd MMO brought to production. KoOTR will be BWs first. Neverwinter nights is kind of like an MMO but KoTOR will be BW's first true MMORPG. While the development team is mainly comprised of the old SWG team I am not sure how this will be for BW. BW has done good things in the past but they will be breaking into a new market where are Cryptic is already established.
Star Wars Galaxies - Since SWG was pretty much a MMORPG disaster on so many levels a lot of people who played SWG will login to KoTOR with a certain expectation. If this expectation is not met or burned SWG vets login to a bug free NGE most will explode and the all the bad press SWG got during the NGE will happen again. Right at launch of the game which will seal its fate before it even gets going.
I hope both games are awesome because it would be great to have 2 MMOs to play. I am just not to sure with KoTOR just because of the past with SWG. While people blame SOE I never once saw Lucas Arts step in and say "You cannot treat Star Wars Fans, OUR customer base like this" so to me they are just as guilty. I have a sneaking suspicion LA had more influence in the NGE then they get credit for.
__________________ "Rhinoceruses don't play games. They f*cking charge your ass."
"You are to this forum what Kung Fu was to 70's TV." - Bansaw
Interesting - I would've thought more SW fans would be claiming SW was better than ST. Color me intrigued.
Are there any SW fans out there that want to proclaim that Star Wars is going to do better than Star Trek?
As far as number of fans - I think Star Wars has Star Trek beat HANDS DOWN. Star Trek can't even compare with the amount of money Star Wars has generated from their movies over the years.
"These two games represent the pinnacle of science fiction IPs - Star Trek and Star Wars - and hundreds of thousands of individuals will be eager to jump into the two divergent universes represented in these two games."
I had to stop here. Please do not disparage sci-fi any more by insinuating that Star Wars is in some way associated with it.
Star Wars is pure swords and sorcery. It's Tolkien with droids. There's nothing even remotely, vaguely or logically sci-fi about it. It's a fantasy story.
Star Trek may not be precisely sci-fi either (transporters were a plot device), but at least an effort was made there. Genuinely, though, I never have understood how people can draw parallels and comparisons between the two. Because there are starships in each? Is that really the reason?
There are seagoing vessels in both Tora, Tora, Tora and in The Love Boat; we may as well discuss which is a more faithful recreation of WWII Pacific combat.
Gah! You got me foaming at the mouth in a ravenous anti-SW tirade again!
Curses! I'll stop myself before I really get wound up on it.
Interesting - I would've thought more SW fans would be claiming SW was better than ST. Color me intrigued.
Its not that Star Wars does not pwn Star Trek because story wise Star Wars wins hands down. Star Wars is almost a religion in my house and I have 3 Master Replica Lightsabers hanging in my bedroom along with an R2-D2 Pepsi Cooler.
However game wise is the argument. I liked KoTOR but was not overly impressed with the game play. The story was excellent but the game play was not all that impressive. Also couple in the fact we saw what LA/SOE did to the die hard Star Wars fans. So I am still leary because of the rumors I hear about LA makes nervous. SOE got shot in the face with the NGE but it might have been LA telling them pull the trigger. Couple that with BioWare entering into the MMO market it could be very bad for both companies.
I am also leary of the fact most of the devs on the BW team are old SWG devs. I dont think LA/BW are sitting around trying to make a SW sandbox game. In fact I bet Julio Torres is wanting more Star Warsy and Iconic game play
Trust me, When BW releases more details I might change my tune but right now I am leary of LucasArts more than BioWare.
Cryptic seems to be saying "You know what, we can never beat blizzard or make a game like WoW so lets not try. Insted lets make a game targeted at Star Trek fans". This attitude is refreshing and really makes me think there is hope for the industry after all.
Jack Emmert really did a great job proving not only was he a game designer but a Star Trek fan as well. His story of watching star trek with his dad was how I was introduced to Star Trek. I still have my Star Trek Megos from 76 when they started reruns of Star Trek.
I do hope I am wrong on KoTOR tho because I would love to get in touch with my sith side
__________________ "Rhinoceruses don't play games. They f*cking charge your ass."
"You are to this forum what Kung Fu was to 70's TV." - Bansaw
"These two games represent the pinnacle of science fiction IPs - Star Trek and Star Wars - and hundreds of thousands of individuals will be eager to jump into the two divergent universes represented in these two games."
I had to stop here. Please do not disparage sci-fi any more by insinuating that Star Wars is in some way associated with it.
Star Wars is pure swords and sorcery. It's Tolkien with droids. There's nothing even remotely, vaguely or logically sci-fi about it. It's a fantasy story.
Star Trek may not be precisely sci-fi either (transporters were a plot device), but at least an effort was made there. Genuinely, though, I never have understood how people can draw parallels and comparisons between the two. Because there are starships in each? Is that really the reason?
There are seagoing vessels in both Tora, Tora, Tora and in The Love Boat; we may as well discuss which is a more faithful recreation of WWII Pacific combat.
Gah! You got me foaming at the mouth in a ravenous anti-SW tirade again!
Curses! I'll stop myself before I really get wound up on it.
While Star Wars may not be "hard" science fiction, it certainly still falls into the realm of science fiction. I figure if a book or piece of literature advertises themselves as sci-fi or fantasy, they will be lumped in that genre, even if the hardcore fans disagree.
I mean, Conan and Lord of the Rings are both in fantasy, yet each setting is SO different. Same thing with Star Wars and Star Trek.
That said, sci-fi and fantasy are almost interchangable anymore. There's a reason why sci-fi and fantasy co-exist on the same bookshelves in bookstores.
However, I do agree that the magical bacteria thing is absolutely retarded.
Another excellent OP/ED article, Cody -- and a bunch of thought provoking comments. Well done!
I've mentioned Lucas Arts being a pain in the ass RE: SWG and was shot down, on that comment since Bioware, unlike SOE with SWG, has had no noticeable problems from "difficult to work with Lucas Arts" with KOTOR. I'm still leery - but hey, time will tell.
For me, STO is the WTG anyway, not KOTOR. I'm old and slow -- KOTOR, at least in my opinion, is very much the FPS and I've never found any enjoyment in FPS games -- too stressful. STO, I think, will be more my style.
Lastly, please remember there's a bunch more Sci-Fi MMOs releasing in 2009. Look for games like Stargate Worlds to develop a niche audience on the cusp of STO, albeit a much smaller fan, thus player base. Also -- you heard it here first -- look for the Bulgarian blockbuster, Earthrise, to be the sleeper hit MMO of 2009.
While Star Wars may not be "hard" science fiction, it certainly still falls into the realm of science fiction. I figure if a book or piece of literature advertises themselves as sci-fi or fantasy, they will be lumped in that genre, even if the hardcore fans disagree.
I mean, Conan and Lord of the Rings are both in fantasy, yet each setting is SO different. Same thing with Star Wars and Star Trek.
That said, sci-fi and fantasy are almost interchangable anymore. There's a reason why sci-fi and fantasy co-exist on the same bookshelves in bookstores.
However, I do agree that the magical bacteria thing is absolutely retarded.
I'm very confused as to how it groups more logically with Star Trek than with Lord of the Rings. Between plot, trappings, dialogue, and the nature of the series, it's strikingly more similar to the latter.
But, I suppose Star Wars fans will always be convinced that it's sci-fi, so there's no point in disputing it. I'll just be content to know better
__________________
"He was determined to live forever, or to die in the attempt."
-Catch 22
Another excellent OP/ED article, Cody -- and a bunch of thought provoking comments. Well done!
I've mentioned Lucas Arts being a pain in the ass RE: SWG and was shot down, on that comment since Bioware, unlike SOE with SWG, has had no noticeable problems from "difficult to work with Lucas Arts" with KOTOR. I'm still leery - but hey, time will tell.
For me, STO is the WTG anyway, not KOTOR. I'm old and slow -- KOTOR, at least in my opinion, is very much the FPS and I've never found any enjoyment in FPS games -- too stressful. STO, I think, will be more my style.
Lastly, please remember there's a bunch more Sci-Fi MMOs releasing in 2009. Look for games like Stargate Worlds to develop a niche audience on the cusp of STO, albeit a much smaller fan, thus player base. Also -- you heard it here first -- look for the Bulgarian blockbuster, Earthrise, to be the sleeper hit MMO of 2009.
I actually doubt either STO or KOTOR will release in 2009. MMOG timetables are notoriously long - so I'd guess 2-3 years for each.
STO vs. KOTOR Online - The Ultimate Sci-Fi Showdown
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