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Old 07-08-2008, 04:58 PM   #1
Medeor
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Default Scott Hartsman and Qhue on the State of MMOs

In a lengthy post on his blog, Scott Hartsman and Qhue of FoH Guild discuss the macro and micro issues facing MMO developers and players. It's a lengthy read, but worth it if you have some time to not only read it, but think about it. I believe they touch on some of the "drunk uncle" topics from which most industry people would shy away. Topics include: WoW boredom, AoC endgame and exploits, and that WoW is the "One."

If you are hearty enough to make it to the end, you can read about the idea of shared instances...ok, I'll share it here, so you don't have to grind your way to the endgame of the post:
Quote:
Scott: Shared instances are for people who have a fondness of the past. I enjoyed the hell out of them, but they’re just not viable content at this point.

Qhue: I could see pseudo-shared instances. An instance that is linked to a guildtag or is semi-private. So you could have a few groups in the place and socializing but not truly public"
There are plenty of other topics to cover, but instead of banging on the "Why game X sucks" drum, I like to ponder the possibilities. Is there anything in that blog that gives makes you think a future game will fulfill your hopes and dreams or will it be an expansion of a current game? Or are they right, and Blizzard has already made the near-perfect game? Or did they even say that?

Last edited by Medeor; 07-08-2008 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:16 PM   #2
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Link?
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:27 PM   #3
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Sorry, it took me longer to figure out the posting, linking, writing, thinking than I anticipated.

It should work now.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:46 PM   #4
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That was an interesting read.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:11 PM   #5
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Very good read, but that is considered long now?It is not even 10 pages! People need to pick up a book!
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:26 PM   #6
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An intriguing read, but... City Of Heroes is "ancient" while WoW is "part of the current generation" ?
I played the WoW 10 day trial only a month ago - not played it since I bought a new PC last year - and trust me if you see it with fresh eyes it is old.

Biggest agreement : the WoW model of expansion empowering is just crazy - not that they invented it, just perpetuate it ( so far anyway ).
In a gear and stat based game, rendering everything that exists pre-expansion useless each time is senselessly antagonistic.
Not sure why they seemed to be resigned to this as an evil of expansions though, when there are franchises like Guild Wars - reliant entirely on expansion sales with no monthly fee - which expand and expand with minimal power creep.

Biggest disagreement : mid-level plateau / 'end-game' is something I cannot stand personally.
I hate it when games make a big song-and-dance about mid-level accomplishments which are absolutely meaningless a few levels later, even more so when progress is obstructed till all the hoops have been jumped through.
The only direction I am enjoying seeing lower levels expanding beyond story & training is towards achievement systems e.g. LotR and WARs epic Tome Of Knowledge.
Unique, fluffy, option granting and just plain weird side-content is good - roadblocking for the sake of roadblocking is bad.

It's not really anything to do with the article itself, but I am always worried when I saw the old school hardcore MMO players interacting with games developers like in the comment section.
My time is precious to me, and I really don't want to see the bad old days mounting a comeback.
As recently as LotR and AoC I have quite literally been offended at content which is supposed to satisfy me as entertainment.
Paying monthly fees to hold W and keep the screen pointing along the road for minutes at a time... *shudder*
Is there any chance of keeping the old school safely away from our next gen devs if we all chip in and pay someone to make a version of Vanguard with permadeath and Sims bodily function bars ( naturally bladder bursting would be fatal ) ?
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulturion View Post
I hate it when games make a big song-and-dance about mid-level accomplishments which are absolutely meaningless a few levels later, even more so when progress is obstructed till all the hoops have been jumped through.
I still see that as one of the biggest drawbacks of the common, linear advancement systems though. Once you lump the best rewards all in one place in max level areas, the only viable way to expand on that is to eventually make those rewards obsolete.

WoW illustrated exactly that with their approach to the content in the Burning Crusade, jumping the gun as it were before ever approaching player retention via a parallel path.

Quote:
[10:04] Gallenite: And I totally agree with that. AAs were the best thing for EQ’s ability to retain. Right up until content had to be created on the assumption that “everyone has everything,” in order to present any challenge, at which point the retention goals are placed directly at odds with the game’s ability to acquire new users.
In WoW, they went straight to that assumption that "everyone has everything", so now based on the content in the first expansion, they've set themselves up in a situation where that assumption is even more accurate, so content has to be introduced looking only upwards, not outwards.

Playing through a game should be a rewarding experience at all points along the road. If the only viable reward exists at the end of that road, everything else on the way there is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

In that sense, the current MMO model of endgame achievements being the only viable rewards once you get there is exactly like single player games that frustratingly only allow you to 'unlock' the coolest bonus content once you've played through the entire game. Why can't I have that cool outfit / weapon / bonus map at the mid-point? You can still have other viable rewards or goals to work towards - you just need to keep those mid-level rewards viable throughout the remainder of your content.

Here's an example:

I don't recall some of the specifics (such as the exact item name / level of the mob that dropped it), but in EQ it was standard practice on raids to require players to use some form of 'Shrink'. Rather than relying on consumable potions, there was a mob at the higher-mid level range that dropped a 'Shrink' wand. It was an extremely useful reward you could obtain before ever hitting endgame content that remained not only viable once you got there, but was as useful as any drops you might obtain while raiding.

Why aren't there more items worth obtaining that offer that kind of utility? Pepper them throughout your mid-level content, keeping it viable no matter how high you increase your level cap. Then mid-level dungeons offer more than items you'll simply replace in a few levels, making them a meaningless or at least obsolete reward.
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