PvPvPvE

[B. de la Durantaye]

PvPers Are From Mars, PvErs Are From Venus

Since the dawn of MMOGs, there have been two major sides. There have been the Player versus Player gamers, and the Player versus Environment gamer. Often, these sides have had difficulty understanding the other view. Age of Conan is bringing both styles of play into their game. Machail discusses the proposed system and its potential impact on the gamers that play it.

Let’s face it. No one likes to be ganked. It’s just not much fun logging on for an hour, planning on getting a quick quest finished, only to find out that another player is blocking your path and will continually beat you down every time you try to progress. But while that may be what enters some people’s minds when they hear the term “PvP,” it’s not necessarily an accurate description on what Player versus Player gamers are looking forward to.

• First, read PvPvPvE in Age of Conan

• Is PvP going to become the main focus of Age of Conan? What about players that don't want to PvP? Will the draw of the mechanics be big enough to spark interest in a whole new generation of PvPers? Let us know what you think.

[Lolpigs]

Great article. I used to be in the "heck no PvP" crowd becuase of past bad experiences with PvP servers.

Because of all the changes that AOC is making, and all the variety I am looking forward to giving it another go. I think it will attract players who previously didnt want to PvP, due to the "ganking" issue. When I'm paying to play a game, the fact there was no option for me alot of the time other than to log off, was very irritating.

I heard that on the RPvP servers, they would be enforcing their rulesets, and punishment for those that behave in that manner which I believe is a step in the right direction. This in combination with the new life they are breathing into PvP will encourage people to give it another go.

Our guild is even rolling on an RPvP server

[Johnny]

Once I finally got my mind around 'PvPvPve' I enjoyed your article Mach, thanks for sharing.

I myself am looking forward to the arena events myself, as I really just can't envision how seige will work, but I'm sure both will be equally fun and impressive.

[B. de la Durantaye]

I come from that group too. I tried PvP back in the early days of EverQuest, and my level 6 halfling cleric couldn't walk 3 steps into Misty Thicket without getting blown up. I logged off that day and never went back to PvP, until a year or two ago.

After playing some other types of PvP, sans ganking, I found I REALLY enjoyed it. I don't think I enjoy it even to play full time on a FFA server, but I'll certainly be doing a lot of siege play, bar brawls, and CTF.

[Vendrac]

I don't know if PvP is going to become the main focus in Age of Conan but I hope it always remains a large one. Just how well PvP is implemented is what's going to make or break this game for me.

I started PvP with my first MMO which was Ultima Online. It was pretty daunting at first but I eventually got really into it. I played that until Everquest came out and I switched to that, by then I was getting sick and tired of all the exploiting and cheating going on. I ended up on a PvE sever. I did try out PvP in EQ on Tallon Zek once but I thought it was awful, that game just wasn't made for PvP. Then when Dark Age of Camelot came out moved to that, I was dying for a return to PvP by that point.

[Khalathwyr]

Let me start with giving Mach his due. Good passionate writing there.

Now, that said, I was that guy. I was that guy in Ultima Online who was killing Deer out by the Moonglow graveyard and getting ganked by Murderer reds day in and day out. Back then I was in the Army, and I can honestly say if I could have gotten my hands on the person behind that keyboard I would have...lets say "remembered my training". I hated PvP. With a passion. To me it was a way for pre-pubescent teenage boys and spineless males over 18 to try to prove their manhood since they were unable to do so in real life.

Let's just say, thanks to my wife, I've calmed down somewhat since those days. Part of the reason I hated it so much was I never saw a reason "why" for it other than "because I can", which was moronic in my mind. Of course, I had the ideal that the players were the "heros" and should be working together, not against each other.

Then came Dark Age of Camelot, and RvR. This was the first game I played where the game world lore had reason for players to smack each other over the head. So, I said, WTH, let's do this. The first battle I participated in was just outside the Midgard gates. It was awesome. I enjoyed it so much that I forgot I was a Dwarven Healer and decided to charge this puny elf with a bow. I swung valiantly, and he flicked me like a hound scratching fleas. After that, I had a healthy respect for my role healing others in combat.

Since DAoC, while I have not been a hard charger with regard to PvP, I no longer abhor it, provided the game lore gives reason for it, such as the AoC setting. That said, I'm not for FFA as part of the reason I game sometimes is notto interact with other humans, lol. That and I have a severe distaste for other players being forced to be the objects of other players fun. With the PvE servers, anyone in a PvP area knows the deal and is asking for a fight.

So, I will be on a RP PvE server (t'would be nice to get a definitive answer on RP PvE servers being offered, hint hint), and I will partake in the PvP, either roaming the Border Kingdoms as a mercenary for the guild there holding keeps or in the Arenas and bars for fame and glory!

[B. de la Durantaye]

I think you nailed it right on the head there Khal. I have to agree about the frustrating part of ganking being there's no reason for it apart from the whole "I can" thing.

[rynfarrell]

I for one am all about pvp. That is the main reason I am so psyched for this game. But, like many of you, I haven't always felt this way. Hell my first experiance in wow pvp I was lucky enough to come up against George and his little peanut gallery of healers from dosi. I couldn't even make it out of the GY. After that "wonderful experiance" I decided f that. But after awhile my friends talked me into trying it again. After LOTS of practice and learning it was all about premades I fell in love. It does help to run with the big boys though =)

-Zithel (Kargath)

[Boleyn1895]

Nice article.

I'm another one of those that "hates" PvP - but that should read PvP Server.

PvP itself is exhilarating and a huge change from PvE, doing quests over and over or grinding mobs to get that elusive next level is fun but you need a break from that sometimes and just let loose.

BUT in AOC and many other MMO's PvP is not restricted to just PvP servers - in fact PvP on a PvE server is everything it is on a PvP server except open world fighting.

To me it's win win, you can log on for that hour you might have free and complete that quest without fear of ganking or you can flag yourself PvP and try to elicit some open world PvP or just go to a battleground or a bar and get your PvP fix.

I mean with all that why join a PvP server at all unless you are a sadist or a masochist

[Osprey]

Hmm, seems like everyone that has responded so far has been what I would call a 'part-time pvper'. Guess I'll be the first to weigh in as an all-out pvper.

I got my start in online games on the old Microsoft Gaming Zone. My first MMOG was a game called Fighter Ace which was a WW2 fighter flight sim (I use the term sim very loosely in regards to FA). It was all pvp as there were no computer controlled planes.

I loved that game and played the hell out of it. Some of the guys in my squad and I would play Rainbow 6: Rogue Spear (one of the best FPS games of all time IMO) on the Zone when we took a break from FA. That was pvp too of course.

Every time I went to the software store to browse the games, I'd see Asheron's Call and Everquest: Rise of Kunark on the shelf. Asheron's Call was also a Zone game and one day I decided what the hell, I'll give it a shot. I made a character on a regular server and started playing. I played for a couple of months but I got a bit bored with it.

A few of my FA buddies had gone to AC with me and I convinced one of them to try out EQ with me. We got Rise of Kunark and I talked him into trying a PvP server, Vallon Zek. The first night we played, I got ganked and I didn't even realize I was high enough level to get ganked yet. Hell, I didn't even know what getting ganked was (I actually don't think the term was in wide use yet). All I knew is that it was exciting and I couldn't wait to be on the giving end.

I leveled up a few different characters to the teens before I found something I kind of liked and from then on, my buddy and I went looking for PvP fights. I never got past level 26 in my first go around in EQ (leveling in that game was a real chore back then) but I had fun fighting other players. It was a challenge and a rush. Much more so than fighting mobs which seemed like a boring paint by numbers exercise by comparison.

Since then, I've played a bunch of different games. DAoC (several times), Shadowbane, Vanguard, WoW, EvE, I even returned to EQ a couple of times. I'm probably forgetting some less memorable ones I'm sure. I've always played on a pvp server since then with a couple of exceptions. I played EQ for a few weeks on a 'bluebie' server and managed to get to level 34 before I got sick of it and I'm currently playing Tabula Rasa which has pvp but only if you're in a pvp guild and I'm not guilded. TR is different enough to me that pve only has been tolerable so far.

The thing is for me that I find MMORPGs extremely boring without PvP. Killing mobs is not fun to me, it's a monotonous grind. In fact, I only do it so that I can be more effective in pvp. Conversely, pvp is always exciting to me and the more unrestricted the pvp is, the better I like it. My favorite times in MMORPGs have been on unrestricted pvp servers like DAoC Mordred, any Shadowbane server, Sullon Zek in EQ, etc.

Even WoW pvp servers were fun until they introduced the Battlegrounds which killed world pvp. You see, it's not that I'm a big ganker, I'm not. Sure, I'll attack a guy out grinding mobs but that's not ganking to me if the person is close to my level. I don't go around slaughtering people that are so far under my level that it's not any challenge because I play for the challenge. If I'm the one that gets attacked while leveling, I don't care. I relish the opportunity to turn the tables and waste my attacker! I'm glad he attacked me because it breaks up the monotony and now I've got some real action. I live (virtually) for those moments. That's what makes a MMORPG good to me.

This post is already longer than I wanted it to be but I'll just end it with this. After reading that article, none of that stuff really excites me about AoC. I'm hoping they have an unrestricted pvp server or at least a team pvp server that you can attack enemies just about anywhere. I want to fight players, not spend all day farming mobs with intermissions of 'clinical' pvp. My ideal would be a system where you actually get xp for killing other players. Pvp is the game to me and the more restrictions that are placed on it the less interested I am in playing that game.